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Επιστροφή στο Forum : OTEnet Conn-X with Annex M upload?



spock521
25-12-09, 14:41
Xronia Polla se olous!

I'm a Swedish geek living here in Greece and my Greek writing skills aren't so good yet (for the most part I can understand it though, reply in Greek is fine!), so I hope you don't mind the English. And if I tried to write it in Greek, I am certain you would mind!! :)

Recently we got Conn-X installed here in my girlfriends apartment (after a miserable time with Forthnet), and it has been working perfect so far, but I got some questions about the service and I thought here would be a good place to start.

To start with, I noticed that the upload speed of the ADSL (24/1Mbit Conn-X Home PSTN) in this case is locked to a maximum of around 1024kbps. This was the same with Forthnet. However, on the new Conn-X line, the maximum attainable upload speed is listed as about 2500kbps (with Forthnet it was around 1300kbps). To my knowledge this means that the other end of my PSTN cable pair is hooked up to a Annex M capable DSLAM (at least that's how it used to appear back in Sweden).

So I could theoretically have an upload speed of 2.5Mbit, if only OTEnet would change the settings in the DSLAM for me. However I am guessing that the ISP's telephone support staff here in Greece are just as unwilling and as untrained as in Sweden with these things, or in other words.. not having a clue what Annex M is.

So to the questions.. Is anyone who is reading this on Annex M with Conn-X? If so, how did you approach the person on their telephone support? How can I make them change me over to Annex M?

In the case OTEnet does not allow this, is there any other option (or ISP) in Greece that does support this? Even if it means having a corporate subscription (yeah I need the upload speed badly, communicating/transferring data with/to the servers I have back in Sweden etc).

Thanks for any and all answers!

DSLaManiaC
25-12-09, 14:51
Conn-X DOES NOT provide Annex-M under any circumstances.

If you need annex-m, have a look here (http://www.on.gr/on/business/office.jsp?category=office&main_category=professional)

(They offer an annex-m capable router free of charge with 12months contract)

baskon
25-12-09, 14:52
Χρονια Πολλα..
Δυστυχως αυτο που θελεις δε γινεται στον Οτε..Νομιζω μονο η On δινει 2 mbps
Ειναι 100% σιγουρο οτι ο Οτε δε δινει παντως
Τωρα για το αν εισαι σε Annex M dslam ειναι πολυ ευκολο να το δεις..
Βαλε το dmt tools και στην αρχικη οθονη σου λεει αν ειναι Annex M ή Α ή Β.
Ισως να το λεει και στο ρουτερ σου στις ρυθμισεις ,αλλα δεν ειναι σιγουρο..
Δες πρωτα αν ειναι οντως Annex M και μετα τα λεμε παλι..
http://dmt.mhilfe.de/

x_user
25-12-09, 15:55
Δεν νομίζω ότι υπάρχει πάροχος που υποστηρίζει (officially) Annex M!
Ίσως η ON που προσφέρει και 2Mbps upload
Εάν σε ενδιαφέρει το upload, η Vodafone υπόσχεται στο broadband ταχύτητες upload μέχρι 5.7Mbps - αλλά θα πρέπει να καλύπτεται η περιοχή σου...

:)

manosdoc
25-12-09, 16:03
It's simple.
They don't offer Annex M by policy, not because they are not trained !
The DSL profile as of now has been sized to 24/1Mbps DL/UL.
This might change using vDSL with profiles higher up to 50/10 but it's in a beta phase in some main cities here, and will go public live, at year 2010, as they expect.

You can talk to OTE customer service or e-mail them to check if they offer business solutions with a guarranteed leased line using higher upload speed.

baskon
25-12-09, 16:11
You can talk to OTE customer service or e-mail them to check if they offer business solutions with a guarranteed leased line using higher upload speed.


Ωραια προταση!!
Μπορει να βαλει leased line Με πολυ χαμηλο κοστος..:rofl:
Ποσο παει αραγε?Κανα 1000 το μηνα?
Δε νομιζω οτι ο φιλος ειπε κατι για επαγγελματικη χρηση..
Η μονη λυση για 2 Mbps upload ειναι η On παντως..
Και επισης αφου μας ειπε οτι καταλαβαινει ελληνικα και μπορουμε να γραφουμε ελληνικα γιατι οι μισοι γραφουμε ελληνικα και οι αλλοι μισοι αγγλικα?

John Giatrakis
25-12-09, 17:52
His post was very well pointed.

I'm in Forthernet Double play. They Offer me THOMSON TG585 v7 witch is an Annex M capable router his quation was are there any DSLAMS with Annex M capable routers? Siriusly i dont know But already i did tryed to connect in Annex M frequency (276 kHz)
And i got 2 many HEC errors during nagotiation forcing my router to recync in lower Frequency and i did many tries trust me. So you also MUST try

In order to set THOMSON TG585 v7 in G.992.5 Annex M, ITU-T you must telnet in the port 23 and type the followin commands:

1) xadsl info expand=enabled

This will RAISE the Speed foult and will take more Expanded infromation from the router your are already conneced. Will allow you to Sync better.

2) xdsl info g.997.1=enabled

3) xdsl debug multimode config=g992.5_annex_m

Afrer you press the enter in that command the rooter will drop your currectd connection will send a message something like "the xdsl type can only be change by othorised personel only" and will Start nagotiation with the DLSLAMS router to connect in Annex M Frequensies. If you fail you will sync with Annex A Frequency but it will the BEST timing it can for the distance and the Attention and the SN Radio margin.

I'm in more 1.5 Km away from Forthernet DSLAM and i'm not capable to sync better than 14500.

Let me now if you have any success ok ?

Dont Spend time with Forthnet personel so far they didnt offer any help to me or anyone i think.

John Giatrakis
25-12-09, 23:46
I'm a little bit of a harry here i dont have Siemens CL-110 CLI manual to give you the Instractions how you gonna DEBUG Otenet's routers if they have Annex M but i assume you are better 'trained' as you clame and the commands are more the less the same.

Otenet's DSLAM is 300 meters of my home and i've sick and tired Forthnet's lamers you also must forget and Otenet's lamers If you debug them your self and you find one single router with Annex M support oppend then i assume is worth to move in connex couse i will have 18Mbits minimum.

Finaly i will down load the Siemens CL-110 CLI manual if you dont find them tell me about it.

emeliss
26-12-09, 02:08
Ηντα'ναι μωρέ John τούτα να τα πράματα που λες τ'ανθρώπου. Τσάμπα τον ταλαιπωρείς.

John Giatrakis
26-12-09, 04:38
In fact emelis i do need these information that i asked about from me. And he toled us how 'advanced' his contry was!? In here in 'poor' greece we dont have these 'wonderfull' advandages? well MY friend there nothing else exept Better settings in the routers do you wand me to prove it to you ? If an othorized personel from Forthnet telnet in the routers in DSLAM and write this command:

xdsl debug multimode config=g992.5_annex_a+g992.5_annex_m + enter

Assuming that they have THOMSON TG585 v7 then guss what will happen ? all the forthnet users with adsl+2 packets will have the capabillity to SYNC in the 'wondefull' 'mistirus' Annex M ITU-T mode that noone realy did know about it simpy just becouse he did read the F** manual.

And in what he was better 'trained' about ? dose he really need me to down his manual and to tell him how will debug our DSLAMS? in the end i can do it for him. Emily can you do it for me ?

........Auto merged post: John Giatrakis πρόσθεσε 37 λεπτά και 26 δευτερόλεπτα αργότερα ........

In fact what else am i doing in here? I do expose swidish provider. The 'Upgrade' to Annex M as, i have proven to you all, is 1 command and one enter. And what did they done ? in simple greeks "σου πουλησαν φυκια για μεταξωτες κορδελες" in fact i dont know how mucth did he payed for hhhmm i fogot 2 commands it needs and the command:

saveall + enter.

emeliss
26-12-09, 13:35
The 'Upgrade' to Annex M as, i have proven to you all, is 1 command and one enter.
Πράμα δεν απέδειξες. Ακόμα και αν είσαι κουμπώμενος σε κάρτα annex-m, ακόμα και αν το προφίλ είναι ξεκλείδωτο, πάλι πόρτα θα φας ένα βήμα πιο μέσα. Μπακάληδες θαρρείς τους;

John Giatrakis
26-12-09, 14:45
What do you MEAN profile ? In the bottom line the above commands are simply changing the connection Frequency to the routers and *NOTHING* else.

Where exacly is your problem you show how easy it was they are trying to Shell it as "a very comlicated method" and the Operatos in the ISP they will spill blood or something to give it to us? My problem is some of you have eated their bullshit.

spock521
26-12-09, 15:12
Thanks for the replies!

John, I think maybe I wasn't clear in my first post about the Swedish ADSL providers, they are no good either when it comes to these issues. They answer questions according to the books their supervisors have given them, if I would ask about Annex M there would be 10 seconds of silence when they try to find what to answer.. and the answer would then be that there is no such thing (since they wont find it in their books). So that's why I wanted to ask how I could approach OTEnet about it.

However the largest operator of Sweden (Telia) do have Annex M in most areas on the default installation by now I think, but they have a lot of other restrictions (bundles,prices,etc) in their service that kept me from ever using them, so back in Sweden I was stuck to the smaller (private) operators who could not deploy Annex M by default. The solution there was to try to get in touch with technical staff who would know about Annex M, and if I happened to be on a DSLAM (card) that supported Annex M, he could put me on that service profile (if he was in the right mood..).

About the Thomson modem (I don't have one, but if I understand you correctly I might try to get one), you're saying that using it's debugging commands I would be able to remove the upload speed limit that is applied by the DSLAM? In other words allowing the modem to use the full 2500kbps of attainable line speed instead of being capped at 1024kbps that the current service profile is locked to? Or these commands would just allow me to verify if the DSLAM indeed can handle Annex M?

Anyway I got many answers in this thread, and I think my decision will be to stick with Conn-X for now and say some prayers for VDSL coming to my area soon! And if that wont happen, I guess there is always the option of ON (or otenet starting to allow annex m) :)

Again thanks for all replies!!

emeliss
26-12-09, 15:19
What do you MEAN profile
...
My problem is some of you have eated their bullshit.
Τόση ώρα στα εγγλέζικα γράφεις. Profile δεν ξέρεις τι είναι; Το σύνολο των ρυθμίσεων που αφορούν την γραμμή.

Καμία ανοησία. Όποιος πουλάει τέτοιο προϊόν, το έχει κιόλας. Ξεκλειδώματα και άλλα γιατροσόφια δεν υπάρχουν.

John Giatrakis
26-12-09, 18:46
In the END The only diffrenced betwin Annex A and Annex M is they runing the line in diffrend frequency and nothing else.

emeliss
26-12-09, 18:58
In the END The only diffrenced betwin Annex A and Annex M is they runing the line in diffrend frequency and nothing else.
Η σύνδεση από το modem του πελάτη μέχρι το dslam είναι ένα μικρό κομμάτι του ταξιδιού που κάνει η συνδεσή μας μέχρι να βγει στον έξω κόσμο.

John Giatrakis
26-12-09, 20:16
Spock521 no you dont need to get Thomson router! The Only way to set THOMSON TG585 v7 in Annex M frequency is to Telnet in the router and type the commands that i gave with other routers you can set them to Annex M from the web browser grafical inrface and its easier.

Your router has the same commands you need to download the CLI command manual but i already did google it and the only think i find was:

http://www.siemens-broadband.com/product_info.php?info=p13_Siemens-CL-010-ADSL2--Router-Annex-A.html

witch is in german and no CLI manual in there!?

The commands that i gave are simply forcing my router to get extened infrmonation from the isps router about the connection and to start nagotiations at 276 kHz (Annex M) trying all the maximum speeds but if the isp dosnt have the same settings to their routers then connection in that frequency is impossible, finaly the Frequency will dropped to 138 kHz (Annex A) and the router sync in the best possilbe speed nothing else.

........Auto merged post: John Giatrakis πρόσθεσε 23 λεπτά και 54 δευτερόλεπτα αργότερα ........

emeliss εγω μιλω ΜΟΝΟ για το Annex M τι κανει και πως δουλεβει και δεν ειναι τιποτα παραπανω απο αυτο που λεω. Αν εσυ Ξερεις ενα 'Profile' που να αγκηατε αυτα τα 3 mbits Upload που 8α πιασεις στην δυσιρματη που εχεις (pstn) μεχρι τo dslam να μας το πεις γιατι εγω δεν ΞΕΡΩ κανενα ενταξη?

emeliss
26-12-09, 20:49
Να στο πω πιο απλά να το καταλάβεις. Τι να την κάνεις μία σύνδεση adsl 24/1 μέχρι το dslam αν η σύνδεση internet που έχεις και πληρώνεις είναι ένα ταπεινό 2/0.256; Είναι τελείως άχρηστη.

John Giatrakis
26-12-09, 21:10
εδω το TOPIC ειναι για το Annex Μ εσυ μπορεις να λες οτι σου κατεβει και με ενδιαφερει ?

emeliss
26-12-09, 21:24
Δεν θες ή δεν μπορείς να καταλάβεις. Τα παρατάω. :closed:

SfH
26-12-09, 21:35
spock521 , as others have mentioned, the only ISP that offers Annex M is On telecoms. I'm also guessing leased lines are going to seem ridiculously expensive to you (compared to what swedish ISPs offer). However, if you really need the upload speed towards a point you have full control of (ie, your servers) you could possibly come up with a solution that lets you combine the upload of >1 inexpensive (no need to even be 24/1) adsl lines.

John Giatrakis, αυτό που θέλει να πει απλά ο emeliss είναι ότι, ακόμα και αν καταφέρεις με κάποιον μαγικό τρόπο και συγχρονίσεις σε Annex M γιατί έπεσες σε συμβατή κάρτα που δεν έχει ρυθμιστεί σωστά κτλ , ο bras πάλι μέχρι 1mbit up θα σου δώσει.

NiKapa
26-12-09, 21:42
Ηντα'ναι μωρέ John τούτα να τα πράματα που λες τ'ανθρώπου. Τσάμπα τον ταλαιπωρείς.

:rofl::lol:..beautifuulll

-21grams
26-12-09, 21:56
:rofl::lol:..beautifuulllΣυνυπογράφω (I fully endorse the above mentioned post για τους Αγγλομαθείς :p)

John Giatrakis
27-12-09, 03:29
This is the ONLY place that i seen Annex M ITU-T to be called "Profile" like its a criminal or something! So for informantion if you ever wanna try to send an e-mail to ask additional informantion about a Router AdsL2+ Annex A (PSTN). You must say "what ITU-T's support this router in dsl modulation ?" They will reply to you like "MultiMode, T1.413, G.dmt, G.lite, ADSL2, ADSL2 (Annex L), ADSL2, ADSL2 (Annex M), ADSL2+, or ADSL2+ (Annex M)". A good router must suppoort these ITU-T's in Grafical User Interface.

If you tell them Profiles you may get the same responce "what is that?"

Also for your infomation the base for AnnexM is 3.3 Mbit/s, Upload. The guy he keep on saying "24/1" like these threat was G992.5 Annex A ITU-T that we have all ready.

I will not spend time to this theat anymore for out of topic posts.

x_user
27-12-09, 03:46
@giatrakis

too many messages and you actually provided zero info!!!

@spock521 if you need better upload speeds, then you have 4 options:
1) use ON telecoms - they provide 2Mbps upload speed
2) use Vodafone's broadband - they provide up to 5.7Mbps (check availability and rates)
3) ask for xDSL (OTE is providing this for business) or
4) go for a leased line (but the monthly premium will be really high)

hope this settles everything and for good!

John Giatrakis
27-12-09, 04:14
I do agree but i toled you allready i'm in forthnet doubley play more 1,5Km away from the forthnet's dslam i never got synced mre than 14.352. If someone from forthnet will telnet the rooter i'm connected right now and type: xdsl debug multimode config=g992.5_annex_m +enter i will disconnect and i will sync in 16 Mbits/3.3Mbits

its that easy.

sdikr
27-12-09, 04:24
I do agree but i toled you allready i'm in forthnet doubley play more 1,5Km away from the forthnet's dslam i never got synced mre than 14.352. If someone from forthnet will telnet the rooter i'm connected right now and type: xdsl debug multimode config=g992.5_annex_m +enter i will disconnect and i will sync in 16 Mbits/3.3Mbits

its that easy.

ποιος σου είπε οτι ο παροχος σου έχει ρουτερ στην άλλη πλευρά;
πραγματικά αν δεν γνωρίζεις κάποια πράγματα καλύτερα είναι να μην γράφεις σαν να γνωρίζεις

eniac
27-12-09, 04:39
I do agree but i toled you allready i'm in forthnet doubley play more 1,5Km away from the forthnet's dslam i never got synced mre than 14.352. If someone from forthnet will telnet the rooter i'm connected right now and type: xdsl debug multimode config=g992.5_annex_m +enter i will disconnect and i will sync in 16 Mbits/3.3Mbits

its that easy.

:rofl:

ZhenXlogic
27-12-09, 11:39
I do agree but i toled you allready i'm in forthnet doubley play more 1,5Km away from the forthnet's dslam i never got synced mre than 14.352. If someone from forthnet will telnet the rooter i'm connected right now and type: xdsl debug multimode config=g992.5_annex_m +enter i will disconnect and i will sync in 16 Mbits/3.3Mbits

its that easy.

Μην διαδίδεται άκυρα πράματα...

Διαβάζω και διαβάζω και διαβάζω και γελάω με αυτά που βλέπω. :rofl:

kover
27-12-09, 13:39
Through this thread I'm sure you got bit confused and that's all cause some people talk out of their ass. There's no Anex M option in connex. Even if you do pick a business plan, adsl orientated, you wont get anex M. What your modem shows, I'm guessing is the theoretical limit of your line but that's just theory. The only isp in this country that actually provides more than 1024 is On telecoms and that's up to 2048 upload in a business plan they do. It has nothing to do with routers/modems/scripts/distances or whatever.

ps. Try not to compare Telia with greek internet providers. We got 1mbit adsl in 2004 and Telia provided 100/100 connections in 2000 or even earlier? :)

psyxakias
27-12-09, 15:41
@John: διακρίνω σοβαρότατο πρόβλημα στη συνεννόηση, απότομη συμπεριφορά καθώς και σοβαρά κενά τεχνικών γνώσεων. Σε συνδυασμό με το γεγονός ότι είσαι νέος στο forum, θα σου πρότεινα να παρακολουθήσεις μερικές ακόμα συζητήσεις και να διαβάσεις τεχνικά άρθρα προτού προχωρήσεις σε συμβουλές. Επιπλέον θα πρότεινα άμεσα να εγκαταστήσεις κάποιον ορθογράφο στο browser σου διότι μεγάλο μέρος του κειμένου σου στα ελληνικά, αλλά κυρίως στα αγγλικά, είναι έντονα δυσανάγνωστο και κάθε είδους αυτόματη μετάφραση θα ήταν αδύνατη.

Για να γίνω πιο συγκεκριμένος σχετικά με το πρόβλημα συνεννόησης

ο spock521 δεν προκάλεσε θεοποιώντας τους σουηδικούς παρόχους (ώστε να χρειαστεί να τους "εκθέσεις"), κάθε άλλο είπε ότι σε θέμα εκπαίδευσης και θέλησης είναι τα ίδια χάλια με τους δικούς μας
ο emeliss (και ο Someonefromhell) προσπάθησε να σου εξηγήσει ότι ακόμα και σε Annex M να συγχρονίσεις για να αποκτήσεις μεγαλύτερο upload, το πιθανότερο είναι να σε κόβει στο 1 Mbps (ειδικά στον ΟΤΕ) οπότε είναι άσκοπο.
ο όρος profile είναι αρκετά συνηθισμένος σε Η/Υ και δίκτυα. Δεν ονομάζεται profile το AnnexM αλλά το σύνολο των ρυθμίσεων ανά χρήστη (user profile) ή ανά κατηγορία χρηστών (group profile). Αντίστοιχα στα windows υπάρχουν user & profiles με το username, password, permissions κτλ.


Υ.Γ. Κάποια σχέση με IRC (GRnet) ή απλά συνωνυμία;

@spock521: Further than following x_user's good suggestions (ONtelecoms 2 Mbps, Vodafone 5.7 Mbps, OTE xDSL and leased line), you may want to consider purchasing a bonding capable modem and sign up for 2x 24/1 ADSL lines that will allow you to have up to 2 Mbps upload. However, keep in mind that you'll only succeed that using at least 2 simultaneous connections (i.e 2 FTP connections) in order to reach 2 Mbps upload. Additionally I'd be very suspicious of Vodafone's mobile package (21.6 Mbps download / 5.7 Mbps upload), as high speed mobile networks in Greece are available to extremely limited areas. Good luck :oneup:

SfH
27-12-09, 16:31
@spock521: Further than following x_user's good suggestions (ONtelecoms 2 Mbps, Vodafone 5.7 Mbps, OTE xDSL and leased line), you may want to consider purchasing a bonding capable modem and sign up for 2x 24/1 ADSL lines that will allow you to have up to 2 Mbps upload. However, keep in mind that you'll only succeed that using at least 2 simultaneous connections (i.e 2 FTP connections) in order to reach 2 Mbps upload. Additionally I'd be very suspicious of Vodafone's mobile package (21.6 Mbps download / 5.7 Mbps upload), as high speed mobile networks in Greece are available to extremely limited areas. Good luck

I actually haven't tried it, but I'm guessing that since spock521 has control of both points, he can set up a tunnel per adsl and use per-packet load-sharing so that he can combine the upstream capacity of many adsl lines with just 1 connection.

calibrapower06
01-02-10, 18:59
euxaristo

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