Επιστροφή στο Forum : Formula 1 2011 - PreSeason / Δοκιμες Χειμωνα
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http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2010/11/18/2011-pirelli-tyre-test-driver-line-up/
Δεν μπορώ να καταλάβω με ποιο σκεπτικό η MacLaren δεν έβαλε κανένα από τους 2 οδηγούς της στα δοκιμαστικά για τα νέα λάστιχα...
Ούτως η άλλως συλλογή δεδομένων κάνουν. Δεν είναι οι τελικές γόμες και τα ελαστικά του '11 θα είναι αρκετά βελτιωμένα. Ένα feeling θα πάρουν όλοι.
Έξαλλου υπάρχει και το λεγόμενο πρόγραμμα εξέλιξης νεαρών οδηγών, κάποτε πρέπει να γίνει και αυτό.
Πρώτο τεστ με Πιρέλι.
1. Felipe Massa Ferrari 1’40.170s
2. Sebastian Vettel Red Bull 1’40.500s
3. Gary Paffett McLaren 1’40.874s
4. Kamui Kobayashi Sauber 1’40.950s
5. Robert Kubica Renault 1’41.032s
6. Rubens Barrichello Williams 1’41.425s
7. Paul di Resta Force India 1’41.615s
8. Nico Rosberg Mercedes 1’41.778s
9. Jaime Alguersuari Toro Rosso 1’42.019s
10. Adrian Sutil Force India 1’42.859s
11. Timo Glock Virgin 1’44.124s
12. Heikki Kovalainen Lotus 1’44.686s
13. Pastor Maldonado HRT 1’45.728s
Massa: "I felt at ease right from the start".
http://www.planetf1.com/news/3213/6515920/Rosberg-Pirelli-s-slower-degrade-faster
Η άποψη του Rosberg.
Force india + mercedes πατωσαν με τα νεα ελαστικα, ferrari / sauber ανεβηκαν.
........Auto merged post: MNP-10 πρόσθεσε 2 λεπτά και 36 δευτερόλεπτα αργότερα ........
Τελειως διαφορετικη αποψη ο Κομπαγιασι
http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/248200/pirelli-tyres-quite-consistent-says-kobayashi/
“I think the tyres from Pirelli are well made,” the Japanese commented. “We tested how to work with these new tyres and how we need to further develop our car for them, learning in which way they are different to what we were used to running.
“The tyres were quite consistent. Only in the morning I struggled with tyre wear, but after we made some setup changes this wasn’t an issue any longer. It was a very interesting test for us.”
...φυσικα τα λαστιχα ιδια ειναι, το θεμα ειναι σε πιο μονοθεσιο καθονται "καλυτερα"... Τωρα με Παφετ+τον αλλο το καραμητρο η μακλαρεν ειναι στο σκοταδι.. Επρεπε να στειλει Λιουις+Μπατον...
........Auto merged post: MNP-10 πρόσθεσε 42 λεπτά και 6 δευτερόλεπτα αργότερα ........
http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2010/11/analysis-of-first-day-on-pirelli-f1-tyres-a-positive-start/
Analysis of first day on Pirelli F1 tyres: A positive start
Posted on | November 19, 2010 | by | 31 Comments
The rebirth of Pirelli as a tyre supplier began today with the first test in Abu Dhabi.
In total there were 13 drivers on track today, with Force India giving both Adrian Sutil and Paul di Resta a run.
The fastest time was set by Felipe Massa in 1m 40.170, which was a shade faster than he managed in qualifying for last week’s Grand Prix. But of course that does not tell the whole story.
The world champion tests Pirelli tyres (Getty)
First there has been a significant amount of track improvement since last week, with lap times in the Young Guns test around 1.3 seconds faster than at the Grand Prix.
To complicate the picture further, there is the chemical reaction which takes place when one manufacturers’ rubber mixes on the surface with another. This takes some time to work through.
My research from talking to a number of senior engineers this afternoon is that the Pirelli tyres are around two seconds per lap off the pace of the Bridgestones, which bowed out last week. The engineers will get a clearer idea tomorrow in the second and final day. Today was mostly about set up, finding ride heights and camber angles. Tomorrow we may see more performance runs.
Jaime Alguersuari had the honour of turning the first lap for a current F1 car on Pirellis this morning on a hot track surface.
Engineers noted several things straight away. The camber they need to run with these tyres is different and inevitably there will some changes to suspension geometry required in designs for next year’s cars, which is to be expected.
Many reported that the front tyres were more positive in braking and turn in than this year’s Bridgestones which is likely to be good news for drivers like Michael Schumacher and Felipe Massa who struggled with that this year. I imagine both of them are feeling quite relieved tonight, although Schumacher has yet to try them as it was Rosberg’s turn today. Rosberg wasn’t as positive about the tyres as others, telling Autosport that he felt the tyres were “weaker” than the Bridgestones.
But Massa had a very different feeling. “I felt at ease from the start,” said Massa. “And there were no unpleasant surprises.” Massa added that the medium tyre needs work on the long runs, while the soft was quick on the first lap and had quite good durability.
Pirelli have already said that the tyre construction will not change for next year, it is already pretty much locked in. The company plans to do a lot more work on the compounds, however, on stiffness and on working range.
The only negative was a rear tyre failure on world champion Sebastian Vettel’s Red Bull car right at the end. Pirelli will be hoping that there is no repeat of that tomorrow.
But the overall view is that they have the construction right and that is the main thing. The tyres are almost ready to go now, which is a fantastic achievement by Pirelli engineers after an absence of almost two decades from the sport. They have a three year contract as sole supplier to F1.
There are some significant aerodynamic effects from the tyres as they are a different shape from the Bridgestones, this will be the focus of a lot of wind tunnel and CFD work over the coming months.
The tyres seemed to warm up pretty quickly, which is not surprising given the heat of Abu Dhabi, so we don’t know yet what it will be like in Spain in February. Nor is it clear what the graining will be like on a green track. These things will be discovered when 2011 testing starts in earnest.
The soft tyre was faster than the medium, which engineers found a positive discovery as that wasn’t always the case for Bridgestone – just ask Nico Rosberg about the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix. There will be two other tyres in the range of four, which the teams will race with next season.
Interestingly when I spoke to Jenson Button about his reasons for not testing the new tyres this week, he said that the McLaren engineers had advised both him and Lewis Hamilton that it would be a waste of their time as the tyres were expected to change beyond recognition over the winter. That is not the impression I’m getting tonight from the teams. They feel that they have a good handle on the tyre now and that the changes will not be on a major scale.
“Whilst a lot of details remain to be understood, we feel that we have gained an initial understanding of the operational requirements of the two compounds that we have and
have highlighted some important areas for investigation and improvement,” said Mercedes boss Ross Brawn. ” We have been lucky to have been able to get exposure to the Pirelli tyres at a track with which we are now very familiar and in conditions that we will not experience again until the final test of the season in Bahrain. Michael watched today’s proceedings with great interest and is
looking forward to experiencing the tyres for himself tomorrow.”
Νομίζω ότι θα φτιάξω το γνωστό F1 2011 preseason thread για να κλειδώσουμε το συγκεκριμένο, πως το βλέπετε ;
........Auto merged post: aroutis πρόσθεσε 3 λεπτά και 12 δευτερόλεπτα αργότερα ........
Force india + mercedes πατωσαν με τα νεα ελαστικα, ferrari / sauber ανεβηκαν.
........Auto merged post: MNP-10 πρόσθεσε 2 λεπτά και 36 δευτερόλεπτα αργότερα ........
Τελειως διαφορετικη αποψη ο Κομπαγιασι
http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/248200/pirelli-tyres-quite-consistent-says-kobayashi/
“I think the tyres from Pirelli are well made,” the Japanese commented. “We tested how to work with these new tyres and how we need to further develop our car for them, learning in which way they are different to what we were used to running.
“The tyres were quite consistent. Only in the morning I struggled with tyre wear, but after we made some setup changes this wasn’t an issue any longer. It was a very interesting test for us.”
...φυσικα τα λαστιχα ιδια ειναι, το θεμα ειναι σε πιο μονοθεσιο καθονται "καλυτερα"... Τωρα με Παφετ+τον αλλο το καραμητρο η μακλαρεν ειναι στο σκοταδι.. Επρεπε να στειλει Λιουις+Μπατον...
........Auto merged post: MNP-10 πρόσθεσε 42 λεπτά και 6 δευτερόλεπτα αργότερα ........
http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2010/11/analysis-of-first-day-on-pirelli-f1-tyres-a-positive-start/
Analysis of first day on Pirelli F1 tyres: A positive start
Posted on | November 19, 2010 | by | 31 Comments
The rebirth of Pirelli as a tyre supplier began today with the first test in Abu Dhabi.
In total there were 13 drivers on track today, with Force India giving both Adrian Sutil and Paul di Resta a run.
The fastest time was set by Felipe Massa in 1m 40.170, which was a shade faster than he managed in qualifying for last week’s Grand Prix. But of course that does not tell the whole story.
The world champion tests Pirelli tyres (Getty)
First there has been a significant amount of track improvement since last week, with lap times in the Young Guns test around 1.3 seconds faster than at the Grand Prix.
To complicate the picture further, there is the chemical reaction which takes place when one manufacturers’ rubber mixes on the surface with another. This takes some time to work through.
My research from talking to a number of senior engineers this afternoon is that the Pirelli tyres are around two seconds per lap off the pace of the Bridgestones, which bowed out last week. The engineers will get a clearer idea tomorrow in the second and final day. Today was mostly about set up, finding ride heights and camber angles. Tomorrow we may see more performance runs.
Jaime Alguersuari had the honour of turning the first lap for a current F1 car on Pirellis this morning on a hot track surface.
Engineers noted several things straight away. The camber they need to run with these tyres is different and inevitably there will some changes to suspension geometry required in designs for next year’s cars, which is to be expected.
Many reported that the front tyres were more positive in braking and turn in than this year’s Bridgestones which is likely to be good news for drivers like Michael Schumacher and Felipe Massa who struggled with that this year. I imagine both of them are feeling quite relieved tonight, although Schumacher has yet to try them as it was Rosberg’s turn today. Rosberg wasn’t as positive about the tyres as others, telling Autosport that he felt the tyres were “weaker” than the Bridgestones.
But Massa had a very different feeling. “I felt at ease from the start,” said Massa. “And there were no unpleasant surprises.” Massa added that the medium tyre needs work on the long runs, while the soft was quick on the first lap and had quite good durability.
Pirelli have already said that the tyre construction will not change for next year, it is already pretty much locked in. The company plans to do a lot more work on the compounds, however, on stiffness and on working range.
The only negative was a rear tyre failure on world champion Sebastian Vettel’s Red Bull car right at the end. Pirelli will be hoping that there is no repeat of that tomorrow.
But the overall view is that they have the construction right and that is the main thing. The tyres are almost ready to go now, which is a fantastic achievement by Pirelli engineers after an absence of almost two decades from the sport. They have a three year contract as sole supplier to F1.
There are some significant aerodynamic effects from the tyres as they are a different shape from the Bridgestones, this will be the focus of a lot of wind tunnel and CFD work over the coming months.
The tyres seemed to warm up pretty quickly, which is not surprising given the heat of Abu Dhabi, so we don’t know yet what it will be like in Spain in February. Nor is it clear what the graining will be like on a green track. These things will be discovered when 2011 testing starts in earnest.
The soft tyre was faster than the medium, which engineers found a positive discovery as that wasn’t always the case for Bridgestone – just ask Nico Rosberg about the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix. There will be two other tyres in the range of four, which the teams will race with next season.
Interestingly when I spoke to Jenson Button about his reasons for not testing the new tyres this week, he said that the McLaren engineers had advised both him and Lewis Hamilton that it would be a waste of their time as the tyres were expected to change beyond recognition over the winter. That is not the impression I’m getting tonight from the teams. They feel that they have a good handle on the tyre now and that the changes will not be on a major scale.
“Whilst a lot of details remain to be understood, we feel that we have gained an initial understanding of the operational requirements of the two compounds that we have and
have highlighted some important areas for investigation and improvement,” said Mercedes boss Ross Brawn. ” We have been lucky to have been able to get exposure to the Pirelli tyres at a track with which we are now very familiar and in conditions that we will not experience again until the final test of the season in Bahrain. Michael watched today’s proceedings with great interest and is
looking forward to experiencing the tyres for himself tomorrow.”
Μα και η Ferrari τη δευτεράντζα έστειλε... Ο Μασα έχει κάνει καριέρα ως δοκιμαστής ελαστικών.
Ποιός δεν μου λέει ότι με τον Hulk ελεύθερο δεν θα γυρίσει στο γνώριμο για αυτόν πόστο ; :p:up:
LOL με προλαβε ο jog!:whistle:
Οκ το κανα split thread... εντωμεταξυ λενε οτι οι ρυθμισεις camber για να αξιοποιηθουν τα pirelli ειναι τελειως διαφορετικες. Μιλαμε πλεον οτι ειναι δεδομενο οτι καποιες αναρτησεις θα παρουσιασουν ειτε θετικες, ειτε αρνητικες εκπληξεις, αναλογα αν δουλευουν καλα με τα νεα camber.
Ακόμα είναι πολύ νωρίς για συμπεράσματα, ας μην ξεχνάμε οτι φέτος θα έχουμε και την επιστροφή του KERS. Οπότε ολα αυτά μπορεί να αλλάξουν εντελώς μέχρι τον Μάρτιο.
Αυτο εννοειται... ειδικα οταν τωρα κοιταμε τα παλια μονοθεσια και το Μαρτιο θα εχουμε τα καινουρια. f-duct απαγορευμενα, διπλοι/τριπλοι διαχυτες απαγορευμενοι κτλ κτλ.
Μ'αρέσει που είστε σίγουροι ότι ο Hulkenberg είναι καλύτερος από το Massa.
Νομίζω ότι θα φτιάξω το γνωστό F1 2011 preseason thread για να κλειδώσουμε το συγκεκριμένο, πως το βλέπετε ;
........Auto merged post: aroutis πρόσθεσε 3 λεπτά και 12 δευτερόλεπτα αργότερα ........
Μα και η Ferrari τη δευτεράντζα έστειλε... Ο Μασα έχει κάνει καριέρα ως δοκιμαστής ελαστικών.
Ποιός δεν μου λέει ότι με τον Hulk ελεύθερο δεν θα γυρίσει στο γνώριμο για αυτόν πόστο ; :p:up:
LOL με προλαβε ο jog!:whistle:
Ο MNP-10 σε πρόλαβε καθώς αυτός έκανε το thread με κοψίματα και ραψίματα σε κάποια posts :p
Δεν πειράζει, ομως το main thread ειναι παράδοση να το φτιάξω εγώ , ακους MNP ?? :p
On other news :
Team orders will be "regulated" rather than allowed in Formula One, FIA president Jean Todt has revealed.
"Personally, I'm not against team orders, but I am against lying," Todt was quoted as saying in interviews this week. The issue has been back on the agenda ever since this year's German Grand Prix, when Ferrari issued the message "Fernando is faster than you" to Felipe Massa before he slowed and let team-mate Fernando Alonso past to win the race.
Todt said covert team orders "deceive the audience and the media" and subsequently require teams and drivers to lie afterwards.
"Team orders have been banned since 2002, but I ask myself how many have been issued in a 'soft' way," he added in an interview with La Stampa. "The difference with that and what Ferrari did is that it was anything but soft. It was a provocation against the regulations."
But when asked if the FIA will react to the latest affair by simply abolishing the rule, he answered: "It will be regulated. F1 is a team sport and each team will have responsibility for their behaviour. We will not tolerate lies or coded messages like 'Save fuel'."
In his previous role as Ferrari team principal, Todt was at the centre of the row over team orders that led to the ban in 2002. At the Austrian Grand Prix the same year, Ferrari driver Rubens Barrichello was specifically told to let team-mate Michael Schumacher through.
"I shouldn't have had to say anything," Todt said this week. "We had agreed beforehand that if he [Barrichello] is in front after the pitstop, he was to let Schumacher pass without making a fuss. It was agreed, and drivers are paid to accept certain decisions. But he made me call him 50 times and he moved at the last corner - the audience booed, Schumacher gave him first place on the podium and Ferrari was fined $500,000 for violating protocol."
Asked if he regrets the affair, he admitted: "Yes, because with hindsight it could have been avoided. Schumacher would have won the championship anyway. But I would have regretted even more if we had lost the title by a couple of points."
Σημερα.. test Abu Dhabi ;)
που μπορώ να βρω λεπτομερείς για τις αλλαγές και με εικόνες:D
http://twitpic.com/38i6z9
"I shouldn't have had to say anything," Todt said this week. "We had agreed beforehand that if he [Barrichello] is in front after the pitstop, he was to let Schumacher pass without making a fuss. It was agreed, and drivers are paid to accept certain decisions. But he made me call him 50 times and he moved at the last corner - the audience booed, Schumacher gave him first place on the podium and Ferrari was fined $500,000 for violating protocol."
priceless :lol:
........Auto merged post: MNP-10 πρόσθεσε 0 λεπτά και 48 δευτερόλεπτα αργότερα ........
Τι βλεπω? Αναστηθηκε ο Σουμι? Η πηγε για low fuel run? :hmm:
priceless :lol:
........Auto merged post: MNP-10 πρόσθεσε 0 λεπτά και 48 δευτερόλεπτα αργότερα ........
Τι βλεπω? Αναστηθηκε ο Σουμι? Η πηγε για low fuel run? :hmm:Λες να είχε πρόβλημα με τα Bridgestone και να βολεύεται περισσότερο με τα Pirelli ;:whistle::whistle:
Λες να είχε πρόβλημα με τα Bridgestone και να βολεύεται περισσότερο με τα Pirelli ;:whistle::whistle:
Too early to tell / too little data... θα δειξει...
Τι βλεπω? Αναστηθηκε ο Σουμι? Η πηγε για low fuel run? :hmm:
Σύμφωνα με τον James Allen (εσύ έβαλες το λινκ):
Many reported that the front tyres were more positive in braking and turn in than this year’s Bridgestones which is likely to be good news for drivers like Michael Schumacher and Felipe Massa who struggled with that this year.
Ναι το προβλημα ειναι οτι τα φορτια καυσιμου ειναι αγνωστη μεταβλητη :hmm: Δλδ οι χρονοι οπως ειναι δε λενε κατι αμα δε ξερουμε με ποσο καυσιμο δοκιμασαν...
Σίγουρα, αλλά το οτι ο Μάσα ήταν 1ος χτες, και ο Σούμι 2ος σήμερα, συνηγορεί στο οτι αυτά τα λάστιχα έχουν καλύτερο front grip.
Καλά ρε σαν δεν ντρέπονται...φτιάξανε λαστιχάκια μόνο για τον Σούμι και τον Μάσσα;
http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/2167/testfg.jpg
Σίγουρα, αλλά το οτι ο Μάσα ήταν 1ος χτες, και ο Σούμι 2ος σήμερα, συνηγορεί στο οτι αυτά τα λάστιχα έχουν καλύτερο front grip.
Πρεπει να λεει βλακειες ο Allen για τον Μασσα... το λεω γιατι το 2008 τα μπροστα δεν ειχαν πολυ grip και πηγαινε καλα σε σχεση με το raikkonen.. Το 2009 οταν η bridgestone καταργησε τις αυλακωσεις, τα μπροστα ειχαν ΠΑΡΑ ΠΟΛΥ GRIP και τα πισω διαλυονταν γρηγορα. Θεωρητικα ο Μασσα θα επρεπε να τον λιωσει τον κιμι, αλλα δεν εγινε κατι τετοιο... εντωμεταξυ ο Κιμι ειναι το αναποδο, δλδ χρησιμοποιει περισσοτερο τα πισω, μη-ζοριζοντας τα μπροστα (ανοιγει μεγαλυτερες τροχιες μπροστα και τρωνε το ζορι τα πισω με μεγαλυτερη επιταχυνση).
Επισης θεωρητικα ο Αλονσο χρησιμοποιει περισσοτερο το μπροστινο front grip (απ'το Μασα) για να βαζει νωρις τη μουρη στη στροφη κοβοντας μεγαλυτερη τιμονια. Μπορει να μη φρεναρει+να στριβει οριακα, αλλα το δουλευει... Ο δε χαμιλτον, αυτος και αν στριβει+φρεναρει οριακα... αν εχει καλυτερη προσφυση θα κανει πανηγυρια... αλλα αν διαλυονται μετα απο 3-4 φρεναρισματα τετοια θα εχει προβλημα..
Στο Ροζμπεργκ-Σουμι ειναι ξεκαθαρο οτι ο Σουμι το χρειαζεται περισσοτερο το front grip.
Βασικα του χρονου θα εχει σημαντικα καλυτερο μπροστα grip γενικοτερα γιατι πισω τους διπλους-τριπλους διαχυτες θα τους φαει η μαρμαγκα... οποτε πρεπει να δουμε πως η αλλαγη ισορροπιας που θα μεταβιβασει το grip μπρος ή πισω, θα παιξει το ρολο της σε σχεση με τα καινουρια μονοθεσια.
Btw..
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/100468tst.jpg
:respekt:
Εχει και το νέο κράνος...;)
Δεν πήρε το WDC αλλά το παγκόσμιο τίτλο κακογουστιάς τον παίρνει δικαιωματικά.. :rofl:
Δεν πήρε το WDC αλλά το παγκόσμιο τίτλο κακογουστιάς τον παίρνει δικαιωματικά.. :rofl:
Τωρα θυμηθηκα κατι φωτο του σουμι που τον εκραζαν για το fashion taste :lol:
Τωρα θυμηθηκα κατι φωτο του σουμι που τον εκραζαν για το fashion taste :lol:
Ε πλεον πήρε τα σκήπτρα... ;)
Btw..
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/100468tst.jpg
:respekt:
Ο Φερνάντος είν αυτός;
Δεν είναι ωραίο το κράνος, πολύ κοκκινίλα, όπως και τα pirelli, άσχημα...:nono:
Btw..
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/100468tst.jpg
:respekt:
τι είναι αυτό το πράγμα που προεξέχει πανό απο το μονοθέσιο
Αν δεν κάνω λάθος το οριζόντιο πρέπει να είναι σωλήνας Pitot, και το άλλο προφανώς έξτρα κεραία. Τέτοιο σετ χρησιμοποιούν στις δοκιμές, μάλλον από έξτρα αισθητήρες που χρειάζονται για την συλλογή πληροφοριών.
Btw ούτε εμένα μ αρέσει το καινούριο κράνος :(
Vettel: Alonso has yet to congratulate me
Γιατι περιμενει αδικα?:p
O αντικαταστατης του μασα..:rofl:
80223
Vettel: Alonso has yet to congratulate me
Τοσο bad loser ειναι? :hmm:
Γιατι περιμενει αδικα?:p
O αντικαταστατης του μασα..:rofl:
80223
σοβαρά:rofl:
Προστ:
The price asked by Ecclestone is variable, about 15 million euros a year in Europe. Abroad, it is between 30 and 40 million euros, as in Abu Dhabi. It's an economic equation: how many spectators can you get? If it's about 50 or 60,000, and the price is 15 million euros, your losses are about 8 million.
Who can put up 8 million euros? If the politicians or the government are not saying "it's important for France to have a grand prix", it's not worth talking about.
http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=42648
Με αυτά τα οικονομικά μεγέθη, είναι θέμα χρόνου η Ευρώπη να χάσει περισσότερα γκραν-πρι, εκτός και αν παρέμβουν τα κρατη σαν χορηγοί (με λεφτά των φορολογουμένων).
Εδώ βλέπουμε κάτι σαν ανάποδη εικόνα της παγκοσμιοποίησης: η ζητηση για GP έρχεται απ' την Ανατολή και τη Μέση Ανατολή, ανεβάζοντας τις τιμές μιας Δυτικής εταιρείας (ΦΟΜ).
απλά θα ξεχάσουμε τι είναι formula 1
Τοσο bad loser ειναι? :hmm:
Sore loser εννοείς, αλλά και πάλι, ο vettel τι κάθεται και το συζητά, αν γουστάρει ο οποιοσδήποτε θα τον συγχαρεί , αν δεν θέλει, δεν πρόκειται.
Μaking something, out of nothing.:hmm:
Τοσο bad loser ειναι? :hmm:
αν ηταν αναποδα τα πραγματα και τα ελεγε αυτα ο Αλονσο θα τον λεγαμε κλαψιαρη μπλα μπλα..
αν ηταν αναποδα τα πραγματα και τα ελεγε αυτα ο Αλονσο θα τον λεγαμε κλαψιαρη μπλα μπλα..
Οχι απλα θα λεγαμε αν οι αλλοι ειναι τοσο bad loser :lol:
Bernie mugged outside his home
Bernie Ecclestone suffered a "minor" injury during a mugging outside his London home on Wednesday evening, according to a report.
Τον ξυλοφορτωσαν και τον ληστεψαν,περασε μια βολτα απο το νοσοκομειο.:twisted:
Φεύγει ο Montezemolo,γραφει ο παπαδοπουλος στο blog του,χωρις να αναφερει καποια πηγη προς το παρον.
Ο Andrea Agnelli φαίνεται ότι θα είναι ο αντικαταστάτης.
Τον ξυλοφορτωσαν και τον ληστεψαν,περασε μια βολτα απο το νοσοκομειο.:twisted:
Φεύγει ο Montezemolo,γραφει ο παπαδοπουλος στο blog του,χωρις να αναφερει καποια πηγη προς το παρον.
Παλιά φήμη...
Παλιά φήμη...
Που πιθανον να επιβεβαιωθει συντομα.
Το μαυρο ματι του Εκλεστον (http://www.sport-fm.gr/article/349678) :x
Που πιθανον να επιβεβαιωθει συντομα.
Αν και δεν το βλέπω, θα το δούμε.
http://www.msfree.gr/ms.php?id=17881
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stXuJw0vEW4&feature=player_embedded
:respekt:
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