Speedport Plus bricked due to downgrade, what's next...

[user3]

I'm new to Greece and plans to live here for (just) a year. Then we'll return to our home country.

We rented a residence and the landlord activated Cosmote's VDSL2 Internet service (already for quite a long time) with VoIP. It's just that no one would ever care or use the telephone service.

A "Speedport Plus" modem-router was placed when we moved in. (Pretty old model: https://help.cosmote.gr/files2/Speedport_Plus_User_Manual_gr.pdf)

I tried to downgrade the firmware obtained from Cosmote official website via Speedport Plus' Web interface. The downgrade was successful, but the same problem occurred as here: https://github.com/nikolas-n/Speedport-Plus-Cosmote-Router-hacks/issues/6

Basically, no matter what I do, the router will only alive for a while (20-30 seconds), then the system/kernel will crash and the modem-router would completely freeze.

I'm 100% sure it's bricked. (Trust me, I've attempted really deep technical work to rescue it.)

However, as I always have a Plan B, so for some reasons, I've got all Cosmote credentials needed for the service. I also have a spare (BYO) VDSL2 modem-router.

So here's what I got:

- PPPoE (Internet) username + password + configs

- SIP (VoIP) username + password + configs

- A bricked "Speedport Plus" VDSL2 modem-router (dead body) owned by I don't know

- A perfectly working VDSL2 modem-router of my own

- I don't mind leaving my own working modem-router at this residence permanently (after we move out) since I bricked the original one

So what am I gonna do now?

We don't know much about the cultural environment and ISPs of Greece. But here's what I've come across so far:

- When I used the official method to obtain the firmware and downgraded the Cosmote router, it still bricked. This proves that the manufacturer (Sercomm) has serious software quality issues. So it's definitely not my fault. Sercomm should prevent version rollback (at least show a warning on the Web page) if downgrading is risky.

- We don't speak Greek, and many Greeks don't understand a lot of IT. Contacting the landlord for such a hopeless reason would only make things complicated, when I clearly could get the Internet continue to work.

- I heard that Greeks are very casual about every aspect of life. So I don't know if they (the landlord or ISP) would really care if the router has changed when we move out. Mine one is even better than the original Speedport Plus: It has Greek language GUI support and better Wi-Fi coverage.

- I don't know how Cosmote manages and sells its devices. Is it working like a once-off purchase (like buying something from "Public + home" shop) or a subscription (ISP warranties the devices during service periods)? Is the device owned by the landlord or the ISP?

- Do I need compensation and to whom, when the device damage is clearly due to Sercomm's software quality issues, and when I have decided to leave my own replacement one?

As I continued to struggle with these concerns, I thought it would be better to just ask on a local forum.

In my situation, what is my best way out? Any suggestions would be very much appreciated.

[masterfaster]

1. Welcome to Greece and enjoy the life here.

2. If you are a subscriber to Cosmote's VDSL service then you can ask them to replace the bricked modem-router with a new/used one that works (for free - and you don't have to tell them that you bricked it, because apparently it was already at its last breath). If the landlord is the subscriber of Cosmote's VDSL service then ask him to request for a modem-router replacement. For Greek citizens there is this voucher: https://gigabit-voucher.gov.gr/go-beyond/, for FTTH (if it is available in your area).

3. You can use your own modem-router, but there are specific configuration steps to be taken, to be able to use Cosmote's VDSL service without issues. There are experienced members here in the forum, that can help you with this.

4. I have Cosmote's VDSL service and I use the Speedport Plus with the latest firmware. I don't have any issues.

5. You should check withing the routers web ui if your line has too many CRC errors.

Regards

[K1m0n]

- When I used the official method to obtain the firmware and downgraded the Cosmote router, it still bricked.

There is nothing "official" or isp-sanctioned in trying to extract service data/credentials from the isp cpe using an older os image.
If for easons x/y/z you need a downgrade, you ask support and they (might...) do it.

This proves that the manufacturer (Sercomm) has serious software quality issues. So it's definitely not my fault. Sercomm should prevent version rollback (at least show a warning on the Web page) if downgrading is risky

Technically you are correct, there should be a warning, that being said cosmote no longer provides firmware images for users to download,
everything happens automatically with the provisioning server upstream.
So the user is not expected to do it's own upgrades (or downgrades).

- We don't speak Greek, and many Greeks don't understand a lot of IT. Contacting the landlord for such a hopeless reason would only make things complicated, when I clearly could get the Internet continue to work.

If he (the landlord, I suppose the contract is in it's name?) contact the isp support and report a non-working router,
the most probable outcome would be for them to send a new cpe (free-of-charge).
Problem solved, and you get to keep your router.

- I heard that Greeks are very casual about every aspect of life. So I don't know if they (the landlord or ISP) would really care if the router has changed when we move out. Mine one is even better than the original Speedport Plus: It has Greek language GUI support and better Wi-Fi coverage.

The issue with you replacing the cpe is that at some point in future (when the owner changes isp or terminates the service)
the isp would want its own cpe back.
If not available, he (the landlord) will be charged for it.
On the other hand, if the owner call support and report the old cpe as not-working,
they will send a new one.
And the isp cpe above will auto-adjust itself and get it's config profile from the provisioning server upstream,
and it will auto-update it's firmware,
so it will operate today, and in the future when service parameters x/y/z change.

I suppose that from the owner's pov, the isp cpe is preferable (even if yours is technically "better").

- I don't know how Cosmote manages and sells its devices. Is it working like a once-off purchase (like buying something from "Public + home" shop) or a subscription (ISP warranties the devices during service periods)? Is the device owned by the landlord or the ISP?

Typically, the cpe is a loan, they provide it for free,
they replace it (for free) when broken,
they expect it returned when the service is somehow terminated.

- Do I need compensation and to whom, when the device damage is clearly due to Sercomm's software quality issues, and when I have decided to leave my own replacement one?

Strictly speaking, you own compensation to isp (it's their property),
but I don't think that they really care.

I don't mind leaving my own working modem-router at this residence permanently (after we move out) since I bricked the original one

If you leave your own, unless maybe it's a fritzbox
(the only 3rd-party routers officially supported by cosmote)
it's not a good alternative for the landlord.

And even if it was a fritzbox, it will not be replaced for free when blown by a nearby storm,
and the isp will still want it's own cpe back on service termination.

Also, other than modem/router/ap, the isp cpe also terminates telephony (sip) service,
does yours does that?

Also, the isp cpe magically auto-adjust itself (using tr-069 and similar),
so it will continue to operate ok 6 months down the road when isp changes ims,
and next year when isp rolls-out map-e.

So here's what I got:

- PPPoE (Internet) username + password + configs

- SIP (VoIP) username + password + configs

If you needed ppp/sip credentials to use your own router/equipment,
there was no need to bother fiddling with the cpe.

The owner can ask support for the credentials,
support will provide.
Whatever you do with those credentials will be unsupported by the isp though.

[user3]

1. Welcome to Greece and enjoy the life here.

......

Thank you for your attention to my concerns.

In fact, I already have my own VDSL2 modem-router (configurations) to work on Cosmote VDSL. So I don't really have any Internet connection issue at the moment.

But since my operations damaged the landlord's (actually ISP's) property, I have the responsibility to take care some follow-up. (Yes, although it is definitely at its last breath.)

There is nothing "official" or isp-sanctioned in trying to extract service data/credentials from the isp cpe using an older os image.

......

Thank you for the detailed explanation and that basically covered everything I wanted/needed to know.

In fact, Cosmote's approach looks the same as in my country, where FTTH (xPON) access is covered everywhere (almost completely abandoned DSL/HFC), and the FTTH CPE (aka ONT) service approach is in consistent with what you have said for Cosmote. The difference is that they generally do not provide any credentials (ONT admin/LOID/VLAN/PPP/SIP) but forced CPEs to operate in L3 routed mode, which clearly infringe consumer rights. This is the huge gap between developing countries and developed countries. In this case, we usually had to tamper ISP CPEs ourselves.

When we came to Greece, it was more of a language/communication barrier. The landlord is between us and the ISP, and it is unreasonable for both parties to have a contact just because of the ISP credentials (i.e. I want to use my own router/telephone).

In fact, when the device was in good condition, I found that Speedport Plus was always trying to establish an empty TCP connection with "tr069.otenet.gr". (Yes, it uses and only TR-069.) That is, after CPE actively establishes a TCP connection with ACS, it (CPE) will not send any data in the TCP socket. And this cycle repeats. So I really don't understand how Speedport Plus could get the latest configuration when IMS is upgraded or MAP-E is applied, even if the device is not bricked, as the TR-069 is bricked. So it seems that Sercomm has really big software issues.

Regarding SIP telephony, the landlord does not intend to provide a telephone, either before or after us. So telephony isn't a real problem in our case. Although IP phones can also be used when we have the SIP credentials.

Of course I definitely know to keep the dead body of Speedport at any time (inside the premises), because technically it is Cosmote property. Based on your response, it seems that my better approach would be to notify the landlord at some point (not necessarily soon) that the ISP's CPE is (naturally) damaged and have him contact Cosmote for a replacement. Maybe it won't be too late to do that when we move out (will Cosmote fastly kill PPPoE for MAP-E)?

Am I able to contact Cosmote directly (without going through the landlord, i.e. the subscriber/owner) and have them replace the CPE?

[K1m0n]

In fact, Cosmote's approach looks the same as in my country, where FTTH (xPON) access is covered everywhere (almost completely abandoned DSL/HFC), and the FTTH CPE (aka ONT) service approach is in consistent with what you have said for Cosmote. The difference is that they generally do not provide any credentials (ONT admin/LOID/VLAN/PPP/SIP) but forced CPEs to operate in L3 routed mode, which clearly infringe consumer rights. This is the huge gap between developing countries and developed countries. In this case, we usually had to tamper ISP CPEs ourselves.

Cosmote was always the easiest to work with.
Sip is on the same vlan (so you just install an ata/pbx/whatever_sip_client on your lan),
and they will provide the voip credentials when asked
(after accepting a waiver, and always unsupported).
Their cpe also supported passthrough mode (ppp relay really),
so, given that you could do a 2nd ppp session you could just install your own cascaded router
@lan-side of isp cpe and it would work.

Nowadays, it is mandatory for the isp to provide the conn. credentials,
so the consumer can use its own equipment (still unsupported),
but it's not so smooth with nova/vodafone (dedicated vlan for sip).

On FTTH the service edge is @ the ont.
Ont tampering/spoofing is offc. possible, not always successful, I wouldn't really recommend it.
It might be a necessity if you need to install a router with fiber interface, but I wouldn't bother.

In fact, when the device was in good condition, I found that Speedport Plus was always trying to establish an empty TCP connection with "tr069.otenet.gr". (Yes, it uses and only TR-069.) That is, after CPE actively establishes a TCP connection with ACS, it (CPE) will not send any data in the TCP socket. And this cycle repeats. So I really don't understand how Speedport Plus could get the latest configuration when IMS is upgraded or MAP-E is applied, even if the device is not bricked, as the TR-069 is bricked. So it seems that Sercomm has really big software issues.

I never did a capture (it's not exactly easy on xdsl), but provisioning does work,
with the cpe operational you will see relevant log entries about cpe contacting acs,
and they do push firmware updates and/or updated config settings from time to time.
I did play haxor once (early voip days) to pick the sip credentials,
but other than that, I don't really use the isp cpe so I don't know the details.

will Cosmote fastly kill PPPoE for MAP-E)?

Unknown.

Map-e is still provided over pppoe tunnel.

My guess is that pppoe will stay for aaa reasons,
very fast ftth later might(?) move to dhcp for performance reasons.

As for map-e, I don't know the plan.
Most connections are still dual-stack (ipv4 is commonly cg-nated nowadays)
map-e is being pushed on a smaller user base.
I suppose it will go that way when it solves the teething issues,
too-good for the isp to pass.

Just guessing though.

Am I able to contact Cosmote directly (without going through the landlord, i.e. the subscriber/owner) and have them replace the CPE?

Ermm.. no, they will need to verify the subscriber's id,
usually they ask for ID number and/or ΤΙΝ.
You could try contact support using the phoneline that belongs to the contract but I still doubt it.

[user3]

I never did a capture (it's not exactly easy on xdsl), but provisioning does work,
with the cpe operational you will see relevant log entries about cpe contacting acs,
and they do push firmware updates and/or updated config settings from time to time.

It (capture) could be easy. You only need to find a plain VDSL2 Modem, and set Speedport's WAN access interface to LAN1 port.

I do see logs from Speedport about CPE connecting to ACS, but it always says "trying connect" and I never see them do anything practical.

On FTTH the service edge is @ the ont.
Ont tampering/spoofing is offc. possible, not always successful, I wouldn't really recommend it.
It might be a necessity if you need to install a router with fiber interface, but I wouldn't bother.

In some cases it may be simple to capture ethernet packets of the PON interface, for example to be able to access the maintenance mode of an ONT. There's something like "set portmirror sourceport 10 destport 1 mirrordata 2 enable 1" command in Huawei ONTs' Telnet, and "ifconfig mirror add pon0 eth0" command in ZTE ONTs' Telnet.

People in my country do try to extract their credentials from ISP ONTs (usually involves some decryption of XML configs). But I think a smarter approach is to directly capture TR-069 communications (where I'm sure all VLAN/PPP/IP/SIP credentials are sent by ACS over this channel), which can be simply achieved by above commands (when ONT's Telnet is accessible). They can also run a fake TR-069 server to pull credentials out if they have an OLT...

Even then, they would need to find another ONT that can work in L2 Bridged mode to be able to use these credentials.

Anyway, self-access to ISP services in developing countries can really make people insane.

Nowadays, it is mandatory for the isp to provide the conn. credentials,
so the consumer can use its own equipment (still unsupported)

That's why I like EU so much. Many of their regulations are positively promoting human civilization. Rather than creating obstacles for end users.